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Pottz
14882 posts
and
97 followers
in almost 2 years
in almost 2 years
ARE WE A GOOD OL BOYS CLUB ?
so a few days ago someone said to me were just a good ol boys club ! we talk about what we had for lunch, or the weather ! and not about wood related topics that would attract a new comer ! so it made me stop and really think about what this forum is and where it will go ? i think most here know how much i worked to grow LJ'S before the "change". i went out there on my terms speaking my mind and was banned for life ! so i found this haven from the crap wood forums and have devoted my time to now helping martin grow this haven ! after much thought and some input from a very close friend i have come to realize, we dont need to be the biggest wood forum, we need to be the best wood forum !!!! are we, you guys, and gals, tell me ? if you look at the talent here like shipwright, dennis zongker, brian and norman pirollo, id say were where any wood worker would wanna be ? when a new member joins i always make a point to welcome them and offer help. do you ? i think new people here are always warmly welcomed by all. not so on those "other" forums ! if you wanna learn about woodworking just look at the list of forums, we cover pretty much anything someone would wanna know about. or just ask ! so what im getting at is yes were a forum with mostly older advanced experienced woodworkers. but some that will give you all you want and more ! so i thought.................whats wrong with that ? so do we wanna be another wwtalk...........about drivel ? or a lj's ..........nazi death camp !!!!! or be the best f@#kin wood forum period !!!!!! so say what you think, please. so martin owns this forum but we will take it where it will go ! tell us where you want it to go !
so MARTIN will you chime in and tell us where youd like us to go ? your opinion matters the most to me !
now i know some of you are gonna think, oh shit this is gonna go viral ! and yes thats exactly what i want it to. to make everyone really think about what ive said. and decide for your selves what you really want from this heaven of wood forums ! this place is already great, we can make it even greater !!!!!!!!! it's up to each of you. peace my friends 😁😎😍
so MARTIN will you chime in and tell us where youd like us to go ? your opinion matters the most to me !
now i know some of you are gonna think, oh shit this is gonna go viral ! and yes thats exactly what i want it to. to make everyone really think about what ive said. and decide for your selves what you really want from this heaven of wood forums ! this place is already great, we can make it even greater !!!!!!!!! it's up to each of you. peace my friends 😁😎😍
working with my hands is a joy,it gives me a sense of fulfillment,somthing so many seek and so few find.-SAM MALOOF.
54 Replies
While I know it will trigger some of the pantywaists out there, I'm going to chime in. He is referring to what I wrote to him in a PM recently. Larry didn't betray any confidences since he didn't mention my name or quote me, but I stand by what I wrote to him and here it is:
"In its current state this site will never be a top site because new users checking it out see nothing but a handful of guys talking about their lunch, the weather, etc. A social club. The casual visitor sees virtually nothing to make them think they'll learn anything about woodworking. Even most of the project posts are just final reveals with little or no content on how it was done."
But it begs the question: Do you want it to be a top site, are are you a happy bunch as it is?
"In its current state this site will never be a top site because new users checking it out see nothing but a handful of guys talking about their lunch, the weather, etc. A social club. The casual visitor sees virtually nothing to make them think they'll learn anything about woodworking. Even most of the project posts are just final reveals with little or no content on how it was done."
But it begs the question: Do you want it to be a top site, are are you a happy bunch as it is?
Half of what we read or hear about finishing is right. We just don’t know which half! — Bob Flexner
rich thank you for coming forward with your statement. the pantywaist comment not needed but i would never reveal a source from you or anyone that tells me their thoughts ! and my friend who gave me their thoughts will be kept secret until they decide to chime in.
rich makes a bold statement that i agree with totally ! so the question is, how do you all feel ? and once again i want to here from our host on his feelings !
rich makes a bold statement that i agree with totally ! so the question is, how do you all feel ? and once again i want to here from our host on his feelings !
working with my hands is a joy,it gives me a sense of fulfillment,somthing so many seek and so few find.-SAM MALOOF.
i personally think its GR8 that we can show pics of ourselves and what we had for supper and what our other interest are i would not change one thing about this forum except if you don't like it here leave
GR8TEST FORUM EVER 🤩😍😁👀🍺
GR8TEST FORUM EVER 🤩😍😁👀🍺
*TONY ** Reinholds* ALWAYS REMEMBER TO HAVE FUN
I like it as it is. The division of forums alloys the good ole boys and the projects and other items. Left LJ and a couple of other sites to be here, found what I liked. Everyone's cup of tea is different. Sure do not want this to go the way of others.
Ron
A very interesting question and deserves some thought. The forum is very much a club and difficult for new posters to gain admission to the club. I like the idea that it is a close almost personal forum but maybe more effort needs to be made to welcome new members and include them in the club. I think we want the forum to grow and not grow stagnant. As I looked thru the posts this morning, I realized that the majority of posts were not really woodworking but just chatting among club members.
I have no problem with the forum but wish there was more posts about woodworking and less just chatting.
It would be good to hear from Martin to understand if the forum is viable with the current membership and participation.
I have no problem with the forum but wish there was more posts about woodworking and less just chatting.
It would be good to hear from Martin to understand if the forum is viable with the current membership and participation.
The question is: why would someone want to participate in a thread, much less a forum, where you are called a panty waste if you dare to disagree.
--Nathan, TX. Hire the lazy man. He may not do as much work but that's because he will find a better way.
I don’t have answers to any of this, but think the forums represent life as it is. I doubt many of us are producing projects and content everyday…unless it’s our career. What we do everyday is socialize, discuss events, relate experiences…which is exactly what shows up in the forums. And once in a while we make something in the shop.
I’d love to be able to build a meaningful project every day, but life doesn’t allow that. I’d also love to view a dozen new projects with write ups on here everyday, but your lives don’t allow you time to make and post projects for me everyday.
The community here isn’t a perfect cross section of America, or even the woodworking community as a whole, but it is a social club where members have found a common element they can talk about and that’s lead to other discussion they might not otherwise talk about. Nothing wrong with that. That’s life.
There’s some immense talent here, displayed in the project posts. There’s no specific way to increase or manufacture more of that. In theory, adding a couple thousand more participants will see more projects posted, but does that make the overall site better? I suppose that depends what you’re interested in. This community, like any other, is an ever evolving culture. You can’t force it to be anything other than what it becomes on its own. It succeeds or fails on its own. I know one thing, trying to force it to be something it’s not on its own is a sure way to kill it…just like any other culture.
You want more content? Hold more swaps or competitions or the like. Woodworkers are always looking for project ideas, giving them ideas and a timeline is a great way to motivate someone who’s maybe a little bored.
I’d love to be able to build a meaningful project every day, but life doesn’t allow that. I’d also love to view a dozen new projects with write ups on here everyday, but your lives don’t allow you time to make and post projects for me everyday.
The community here isn’t a perfect cross section of America, or even the woodworking community as a whole, but it is a social club where members have found a common element they can talk about and that’s lead to other discussion they might not otherwise talk about. Nothing wrong with that. That’s life.
There’s some immense talent here, displayed in the project posts. There’s no specific way to increase or manufacture more of that. In theory, adding a couple thousand more participants will see more projects posted, but does that make the overall site better? I suppose that depends what you’re interested in. This community, like any other, is an ever evolving culture. You can’t force it to be anything other than what it becomes on its own. It succeeds or fails on its own. I know one thing, trying to force it to be something it’s not on its own is a sure way to kill it…just like any other culture.
You want more content? Hold more swaps or competitions or the like. Woodworkers are always looking for project ideas, giving them ideas and a timeline is a great way to motivate someone who’s maybe a little bored.
Ryan/// ~sigh~ I blew up another bowl. Moke told me "I made the inside bigger than the outside".
You invited me here Pottz and I like it.
I love sharing and really try to make my posts worthwhile and interesting for everyone.
I care greatly about woodworking and sharing with others and this is why I'm here. The Joy in the Journey.
If there was one thing I wish were better it would be more interaction.
Having said this....I haven't seen any forum better than this one. So something is working.
You were right!
I love sharing and really try to make my posts worthwhile and interesting for everyone.
I care greatly about woodworking and sharing with others and this is why I'm here. The Joy in the Journey.
If there was one thing I wish were better it would be more interaction.
Having said this....I haven't seen any forum better than this one. So something is working.
You were right!
I remember Martin's answer to a similar question some time ago. It was something like "Just keep posting great content"
I am guilty as anyone with a slow pace of posting projects or blogs (only 1 blog so far) but I am pretty sure that anyone visiting the site is going to be looking for content that will help them become better wood workers and/or opportunities to share what they know.
An analogy comes from my kayak project. I took it to the county fair and got a few awards for it. BUT the largest award I got was for the display I put together about the build. It was an 18 ft long story board with the content that is in the project posting. The fair manager told me that it was the most successful display at the fair. People would spend up to a half hour reading about the build.
Content that keeps people interested for an extended time is going to build interest and participation.
I am guilty as anyone with a slow pace of posting projects or blogs (only 1 blog so far) but I am pretty sure that anyone visiting the site is going to be looking for content that will help them become better wood workers and/or opportunities to share what they know.
An analogy comes from my kayak project. I took it to the county fair and got a few awards for it. BUT the largest award I got was for the display I put together about the build. It was an 18 ft long story board with the content that is in the project posting. The fair manager told me that it was the most successful display at the fair. People would spend up to a half hour reading about the build.
Content that keeps people interested for an extended time is going to build interest and participation.
My $.02 . I think Martin has done very well the way he does things. If you want to be in charge, you should start your own website. If he needs your help, I'm sure he will ask.
Lumberjocks was the best the internet had to offer.
There was big smoke about this same stuff at Lumberjocks. Maybe 10 years go, CRS is kicking in. A lot of new people wanted Lumberjocks to be like Facebook,post anything about everything, and telling us that if we don't like it, we should go somewhere else. I already changed the channel, that's how I got to Lumberjocks.
I'm going to go and make some popcorn.
Lumberjocks was the best the internet had to offer.
There was big smoke about this same stuff at Lumberjocks. Maybe 10 years go, CRS is kicking in. A lot of new people wanted Lumberjocks to be like Facebook,post anything about everything, and telling us that if we don't like it, we should go somewhere else. I already changed the channel, that's how I got to Lumberjocks.
I'm going to go and make some popcorn.
You don't always get what you go after,but you do get what you wouldn't have got if you didn't go after what you didn't get. Blaze Foley
I'm neutral here, it is what it is and will be what it will be.
As to the actual wood work, I think the project posts are all fine. Some have loads of detail, some just the project and a few words.
If members have the time, I'd like to see the "major" projects split up into the project forum, short and sweet with lots of good photos, and a "how it did it" type blog that is prominently linked from the project .
This way, the project provides a quick view and quick read, the blog provides the details.
As to the actual wood work, I think the project posts are all fine. Some have loads of detail, some just the project and a few words.
If members have the time, I'd like to see the "major" projects split up into the project forum, short and sweet with lots of good photos, and a "how it did it" type blog that is prominently linked from the project .
This way, the project provides a quick view and quick read, the blog provides the details.
The question is: why would someone want to participate in a thread, much less a forum, where you are called a panty waste if you dare to disagree.
This is a perfect example of what I frequently find myself up against—a complete lack of understanding about what I've said.
For starters, the word is pantywaist, not panty waste. Panty waste is something else entirely...lol. A pantywaist (one word) is a coward. If someone "dares to" do something, they are anything but a pantywaist.
Half of what we read or hear about finishing is right. We just don’t know which half! — Bob Flexner
I wouldn’t worry about such talk. It comes from a place of not knowing that you have to interface with people to extract the knowledge they hold. This may seem like a foreign concept to anyone that grew up without the Internet (like myself), but the latest generations have access to digital libraries where no human needs to be present to extract all the knowledge one can stomach.
I read the comments about it being a social club and final reveals bereft of step-by-step instructions.
Those people talking about the weather are (at least to us) signs of life and the mere prospect that someone other than an AI can answer a question is better than a search engine. However to the person that made such comments, the opposite is true. They seek a repository of knowledge on woodworking and were dissatisfied when they found humans — talking to each other (or at least typing to each other, if we are pedantic).
What has become corrupt is the natural order of oral tradition. The invention of computers before the Internet and the development of the “database” changed our lives but when you go attaching all those databases to the Internet and make them publicly accessible, it spoils a generation and it’s no wonder why the current generation both lacks social skills as well as avoids social interaction (safe for the few being raised right — but those are far between).
I for one do not want to see Craftisian’s become a Thingiverse.
The fact that we have people to talk to is, I think, one of our biggest attractors.
My 2 cents.
I read the comments about it being a social club and final reveals bereft of step-by-step instructions.
Those people talking about the weather are (at least to us) signs of life and the mere prospect that someone other than an AI can answer a question is better than a search engine. However to the person that made such comments, the opposite is true. They seek a repository of knowledge on woodworking and were dissatisfied when they found humans — talking to each other (or at least typing to each other, if we are pedantic).
What has become corrupt is the natural order of oral tradition. The invention of computers before the Internet and the development of the “database” changed our lives but when you go attaching all those databases to the Internet and make them publicly accessible, it spoils a generation and it’s no wonder why the current generation both lacks social skills as well as avoids social interaction (safe for the few being raised right — but those are far between).
I for one do not want to see Craftisian’s become a Thingiverse.
The fact that we have people to talk to is, I think, one of our biggest attractors.
My 2 cents.
well this is what i wanted to hear from you all. i agree that there is nothing wrong with this forum. as far as new members and making them feel welcome i think we do a pretty good job. ive never seen a new person shunned in anyway. i personally try and welcome everyone i see and offer my help. i think as a new member rick will say he's been warmly welcomed ? he's a great example of what we wish all new people would do. post content and join in the conversations. not sure what if id change anything about this place. it's nice being allowed to be and talk like adults without some one scolding you. as far as new members i dont care if we add 50k more, id rather get 50 that participate ! big numbers are for crap forums like LJ'S and WWTALK ! so lets keep it going forward.
oh and as for more wood talk all one needs to do is scroll through the list of forums and you'll find a topic on just about anything you want. and if you dont simply start one and im sure many will join in. it's up to all of us to make this forum what we want.
oh and as for more wood talk all one needs to do is scroll through the list of forums and you'll find a topic on just about anything you want. and if you dont simply start one and im sure many will join in. it's up to all of us to make this forum what we want.
working with my hands is a joy,it gives me a sense of fulfillment,somthing so many seek and so few find.-SAM MALOOF.
I had thought this was the best forum for woodworkers to go to on the internet. That said this pantywaist probably won't be here very much after learning that one of 2 "owners" of this site is a TROLL, and the other a psycho, who just 2 days ago was whining about said TROLL, and now counts him as his best friend on earth. Ya'll figure out what you want, but I don't do crazy very well. Have fun peeps.
I will just second what Ryan said. He summed it up perfectly:
I don’t have answers to any of this, but think the forums represent life as it is. I doubt many of us are producing projects and content everyday…unless it’s our career. What we do everyday is socialize, discuss events, relate experiences…which is exactly what shows up in the forums. And once in a while we make something in the shop.
I’d love to be able to build a meaningful project every day, but life doesn’t allow that. I’d also love to view a dozen new projects with write ups on here everyday, but your lives don’t allow you time to make and post projects for me everyday.
The community here isn’t a perfect cross section of America, or even the woodworking community as a whole, but it is a social club where members have found a common element they can talk about and that’s lead to other discussion they might not otherwise talk about. Nothing wrong with that. That’s life.
There’s some immense talent here, displayed in the project posts. There’s no specific way to increase or manufacture more of that. In theory, adding a couple thousand more participants will see more projects posted, but does that make the overall site better? I suppose that depends what you’re interested in. This community, like any other, is an ever evolving culture. You can’t force it to be anything other than what it becomes on its own. It succeeds or fails on its own. I know one thing, trying to force it to be something it’s not on its own is a sure way to kill it…just like any other culture.
You want more content? Hold more swaps or competitions or the like. Woodworkers are always looking for project ideas, giving them ideas and a timeline is a great way to motivate someone who’s maybe a little bored.
Martin Sojka, Maker of Craftisian
thank you martin !
working with my hands is a joy,it gives me a sense of fulfillment,somthing so many seek and so few find.-SAM MALOOF.
Here's a hug for you Pottz! We're in this together.
I just see the world through a different filter than you
I just see the world through a different filter than you
You don't always get what you go after,but you do get what you wouldn't have got if you didn't go after what you didn't get. Blaze Foley
maybe elaborate a little hairy ?
working with my hands is a joy,it gives me a sense of fulfillment,somthing so many seek and so few find.-SAM MALOOF.
Pottzy, I think if we here, were unhappy with this site, we would move on. There are plenty of other sites out there. As an example, I sure anyone that has been on here very long, is very familiar with "The Patio". Lots of chit chat, posts made that just agree with the previous posts, and small talk....but in there are very pertinent questions to the poster. I for one, have asked many, many questions and got some great answers to my questions. It is like sitting in a bar or restaurant with friends and asking a question about something to your friends. You get good answers form your friends, whom you trust. I have gotten some great cooking techniques, from those same friends on other threads. Who is to say that this type of interaction is wrong or more than that, won't grow the site?
There are those of us that live in great big towns, and those that live in small towns....both have some very valid points for being their choice of areas to live in. Likewise so is the world of forums. I prefer this size. I dare any forum to outdo the quality of projects that are posted here.
I am very guilty of taking breaks from the forum. If someone grates on my nerves and I feel I am going to snap and say things that I ultimately will not be proud of, I take some time off. But I always have the intent of coming back.
Our little community has its quirks, but so do all families. Who here has not made fun of this or that family member, and who here would not defend this or that family member to outside people.
Rich, I fail to see how the comment, "While I know it will trigger some of the pantywaists out there, I'm going to chime in" can be taken any other way than a dig. Possibly you should have put that another way, if you trying to be constructive in the long run.
Martin, I think by the answers you have here, most of us are happy. I know, I am. You can not make everyone happy all the time. Keep on, keepin on.....
There are those of us that live in great big towns, and those that live in small towns....both have some very valid points for being their choice of areas to live in. Likewise so is the world of forums. I prefer this size. I dare any forum to outdo the quality of projects that are posted here.
I am very guilty of taking breaks from the forum. If someone grates on my nerves and I feel I am going to snap and say things that I ultimately will not be proud of, I take some time off. But I always have the intent of coming back.
Our little community has its quirks, but so do all families. Who here has not made fun of this or that family member, and who here would not defend this or that family member to outside people.
Rich, I fail to see how the comment, "While I know it will trigger some of the pantywaists out there, I'm going to chime in" can be taken any other way than a dig. Possibly you should have put that another way, if you trying to be constructive in the long run.
Martin, I think by the answers you have here, most of us are happy. I know, I am. You can not make everyone happy all the time. Keep on, keepin on.....
Mike
