So, we got talking about GRABO on another thread here and I started going down a rabbit hole.
One of my use cases for such a thing would be for use as the vacuum in a vacuum clamp setup. Without getting in the weeds about the device providing the vacuum, I was interested in what Craftisians thoughts were about vacuum clamps for multi-angle work holding? That is, if I mounted a vacuum clamp surface on a gimbal and used it for work holding at various angles.
I see there are various ‘pods’ and ‘pucks’ available on the interwebs, as well as methods to build your own fixtures. Anyone have experience with any of these. Recommendations?
I imagine I’d be using it mostly for hand tool applications, but I could see using it for routing as well. Hell, it might work really well in place of double sided tape for my Shaper Origin…
So, what say you? Talk to me about your thoughts and experiences with vacuum clamps for work holding…any info you’ve got…
Ryan/// ~sigh~ I blew up another bowl. Moke told me "I made the inside bigger than the outside".
Yup, he and I were chatting a bit about them on another thread, which is why I started this one so as not to keep highjacking that one. Gotta say I’m a little surprised that it appears no one (but the quacker-downunder) are using them. Seems like a fair amount of guys have vac pumps for various stuff…
Ryan/// ~sigh~ I blew up another bowl. Moke told me "I made the inside bigger than the outside".
I've seen the ones that Rockler sells but have not tried them. I picked up a couple of vacuum chucks and a pump on Craigslist a couple years ago for finishing the bottoms of bowls on my lathe. Works great for that so I can imagine that for hold downs it would work well too. My only concern about the Rockler ones is that they are pretty small. My understanding is that the larger the area of contact, the greater the holding force but maybe that is not an issue at maximum vacuum.
--Nathan, TX. Hire the lazy man. He may not do as much work but that's because he will find a better way.
Duck and I were chatting on about the GRABO clamps he’s got, and it turns out Izzy Swan has an adapter to make it a remote vacuum pump. It’s self regulating, which is pretty cool, but I think the vacuum it pulls might be a big weak for project clamping…but I don’t know. Then I got into a rabbit hole reading on veneeringsupplies.com about pumps and Venturi kits. Joe from veneeringsepplies.com has a whole vacuum clamp mod that uses one of his veneer vacuum kits, a foot peddle and a product kit called Podz to create a configurable vacuum clamping system that is supposed to be very sturdy.
Of course, everything has a cost. To be All-In with the Venturi, the peddle and the Podz kit is a little over $500. I’ve got a big enough compressor to handle it, and the kit he sells has an automatic feature to shut off airflow when not needed, but turns it back on to refresh the vacuum as needed, so it’s not like the compressor is going to work overtime.
I could see using clamps for some bench work, as well as on the Aux bench for the Shaper Origin. Double sided tape works great, but this would be so much more convenient…especially for non-through cuts. It also opens up using a vacuum pot, which I don’t know that I would do since I haven’t done any silicon mold work. And from what I read a pressure pot would be better for casting epoxy anyway (which I’m more likely to do for blanks and such…but also have not done). I would also be nice to be able to use vacuum bags to veneer if needed of course.
I don’t know much of anything about it and was hoping some folks here had more hands-on experience this something like it. It’s a tough hole to jump down when I don’t have much need for the parts if the main use doesn’t work out!
Ryan/// ~sigh~ I blew up another bowl. Moke told me "I made the inside bigger than the outside".
Splint! Awesome! Would you tell me which system you’ve got from them? Are you happy with it? Do you use it predominantly for veneering as designed? Have you done any work holding with it?? What size compressor are you using?
I knew you guys would come through…
Ryan/// ~sigh~ I blew up another bowl. Moke told me "I made the inside bigger than the outside".
Ryan, can't remember which system I got as it was a few years back, but I can dig than info up later. It was one of their kits, basically I supplied the PVC accumulators and a wood frame to hold all the bits.
It was a perfect choice for my veneering needs since I had a larger compressor already and did not have a vacuum pump. I like how it shuts off until the vacuum drops below a set point whereas a pump will be running constantly.
It is as fast or faster at drawing down a specific volume than the small pumps I'm familiar with so it seems it would do well for clamping.
My compressor is a 5HP single stage (60 gallon upright). The air draw is about the same as what the compressor can put out at full charge, but since it only runs for about 1 minute to draw down a large bag, it is not a concern for me.
Best things: Compact, light, zero maintenance, dead quiet (when not running🙂), works for the intended job
Worst things: Need to drag over an air hose, kinda loud when operating, wouldn't want to use for continuous operation due to the work being done by the compressor.
Just checked the VS web site. Closest thing is the "V4", basically the kit of the venturi, solenoids/valves, gauge, brass fittings and hoses. It was an earlier version that I bought, maybe around $200 about 5 years ago.
Awesome….I’m in a similar boat. I be very interested in which compressor you’ve got as well as the Venturi system you chose, when it’s convenient. Much appreciated! I’ve got ideas spinning in my head that I need to put down on paper for this one…if I decide to go that route.
Ryan/// ~sigh~ I blew up another bowl. Moke told me "I made the inside bigger than the outside".
Don't know where the docs are but I think it was around 4-5 CFM. My compressor is an upright DevilBiss and I run a line at max pressure (120psi) to the venturi. After the line drop I'd guess the pressure is about 100pst and the vacuum gauge will get down to about 20 inches Hg (this is at 4600 ft altitude).The compressor is the same as all the other low-budget uprights of similar style, probably 8-10 CFM at 90psi, but I'm guessing (can't read the label where it is installed).
Supposedly those venturis have increased a bit in efficiency over the past few years.
I imagine that any clamps are fairly low volume and should drain of air rapidly. With a good seal the pump should cycle off and stay off. I think the key info for you is how much vacuum do the clamps require.
Sorry RyanGi... I hate reading and have enough trouble keeping up with threads I follow let alone read new ones.
Unfortunately I have little more to add than what we discussed... having the Fe$tool I really don't have the incentive to look at other vacuum systems... though that Podz looks impressive... but seem limited to tabletop use.
I got the GRABO for other uses than benchwork. It was the announcement that the Fe$tool VAC-SYS was being discontinued that I started playing around with the GRABO for the "benefit" of people that would like but now could not Fe$tool. Other than that, it seems like you guys have the topic covered well above my think tank pay grade.
If your first cut is too short... Take the second cut from the longer end... LBD
Cool. Thanks for the info. I sent an email to Joe at veneersupplies.com and he was nice enough to go over some of the questions I had. The guys is obviously a wealth of knowledge and has forgotten more about vacuum presses and all other things vacuum than I’ll ever know. As I said, I’m most interested in vacuum work holding so we’ll see what other info he gets back to me. If I decide to move forward with it, maybe I’ll do a blog series here about the build and the fixtures. It’s a neat idea!
Ryan/// ~sigh~ I blew up another bowl. Moke told me "I made the inside bigger than the outside".
No I am still driving on the Correct side of the road. The Roarocket was a Skateboard laminator originally, I used it a few years ago when I was learning how to Vacuum laminate my projects. The most impressive results I got would have to have been the Coffins I made in 2012. and the raw result. As not to tease you, as finished over 10 years ago!
Joe makes a vacuum setup worth checking out and I am sure we could get it working on the Correct voltage too
no I was just supporting my opinions with the presentation of scientific evidence in case anybody thought I was all BS, even if I did get the name wrong. (roarockit not roarocket)
