I picked up a benchtop jointer and a benchtop planer. Haven’t had a chance to do anything more than a few test cuts, but so far very excited at the newfound ability to mill my own lumber.
I’m looking at picking up a set of roller stands, such as the ones Rockler carries, to provide infeed/outfeed support such that it might be possible to run longer boards on those benchtop machines. However, as crazy as this may sound, I find myself a bit intimidated at the thought of having to align the roller stands to the machines, at least based off my current frame of reference. I’m hoping there’s a chance it will prove much easier than I presently believe it to be.
A couple months ago when I first picked up those machines, I stumbled upon this video while causally browsing YouTube: https://youtu.be/a9HVUU-fF4k?si=Wa9Km_h8He_ZBU4I Slightly different than my situation of just using separate roller stands, this guy Aaron Weed actually machined and permanently installed extended sections to the infeed and outfeed beds of his jointer. In doing so, he painstakingly analyzed every possible dimension and angle to get everything as parallel and coplanar as possible. Based on that video and a glance at some of his others- he’s clearly got a background in machining. The video shows him go through an obscene number of steps involving dial indicators and other extremely fine tuning methods.
As for how that’s influenced my thoughts surrounding the roller stands- granted, they are further away and are there to offer support, not quite be a continuation of the bed- but assuming the surface created by those roller supports is not perfectly coplanar with the bed they are being used with, based off the logic from that video, it would create potential sources of error. I’m aware that woodworking is not an exercise in perfectionism to the extent that CNC machining is, but still- the logic from that video would dictate that every single time I wanted to use the stands, I’d need to find a means of aligning them to the exact plane that the beds sit on. And based off the Rockler stand’s way of using eccentric feet for leveling and their height adjustment… I have absolutely no clue how I’d pull off achieving that level of coplanarity.
I guess I’m wondering, how would you all suggest adjusting those stands for different tools, and will the inability to get perfect alignment with my jointer have a profound negative impact on the quality of my milling?
A decent bench top type planer has rollers that will force the wood flat against its bed. If the wood is long, the weight extending out will allow the planer to tip, but still keep the wood pressed flat. If the setup is on a bench, this could be an obvious hazard, but of you have the planer on the floor and just let it rock, it'll actually work nicely for long (8') stock. The stands (I have a set of those Rocklers prevent this, but no need to be perfectly inline. You actually want them a tad lower so the board doesn't hit them and knock them over. Consider them to be there to keep your work from falling off the bench. With a jointer, the operator is the one keeping the wood flat against the table so anything to keep the wood from tipping as the end leaves the table is a must. This is where having a machine with long tables is great. Ideally the piece you are jointing should still have full table contact until it is past the cutter. With the roller stands, same issues but worse. If they are too low, your wood may drop a bit before being supported again with the roller (messes up the cut). Same thing if too high and the board lifts. A jointer can do nice work, but the learning curve is steep since you are trying to turn a board with a concave edge (only two contact points at the ends) or one with a convex edge (one contact point) into a straight edge. For this reason I like to use a jig on the table saw to get the edge straight, then if I want it to have nicer edge without any saw took marks or burn, I'll do a pass on the jointer.
IMO, the stands are great for support when the workpiece is not going to be moving onto or off of the stand. Beyond that they are only good for catching a board that is already above it so it doesn't tip (much) as the cut is in progress.
dont over think this it's nothing of an exact science. just lay a board on the bed of your jointer or planer and adjust the roller slightly less than than what the board coming out will be like splint mentioned. ive tipped many stands over being set too high. your gonna have some boards come out curving down and some may slightly curve up. the vid he shows a continuation of the bed, not so with roller stands that might be 2 or 3 feet away from the machine.
working with my hands is a joy,it gives me a sense of fulfillment,somthing so many seek and so few find.-SAM MALOOF.
Pottz is right about not needing to be perfect height; however, sagging of long boards on the outfeed or infeed side of a planer can cause snipe because the downwards pressure can cause the board to pivot up slightly into the cutters as it clears the rear roller or before the front roller is engaged. Even on short boards, if you are getting snipe on the trailing end, slight upwards pressure on the outfeed end of the board near the end of the pass can help to minimize or even eliminate the snipe. Snipe on the leading edge can also be reduced by putting upwards pressure on the board until the front feed roller is engaged. You probably don't want the roller stands higher because they will probably just get knocked over if you are not standing on that side to guide them but in those situations where you want a near perfect surface coming off the planer, you do not want excessive sagging at either end so getting them close is a good idea. When possible, for both planing and jointing, rough cut the length of the board closer to the final length before jointing and planing. This not only makes them more manageable but also helps to reduce the amount of warping you will have to mill out of the board and conserves wood.
For jointers it is more about making long boards manageable so that you can keep the board flat on the jointer bed with just slight downward pressure. If you are having to apply significant pressure, not only will it be difficult to manage but it can be a little dangerous since the extra pressure you are having to apply could lead to a mishap. For this situation, it is a good idea to make a test run with the jointer off to make sure that the stands are at the right height and distance from the jointer.
When possible, for both planing and jointing, rough cut the length of the board closer to the final length before jointing and planing. This not only makes them more manageable but also helps to reduce the amount of warping you will have to mill out of the board and conserves wood.
Also note that with roller stands that have one wide roller, it is important that they be aligned correctly too. If they are slightly askew, it can cause the board to pull to one side. Not as big of a deal with planer and jointer but if you ever use it on the table saw, that slight tendency to pull to one side can cause side pressure and lead to kickback or just a less than idea cut surface. I do not have one, but the roller stands that have several round roller bearings should have less of a tendency to move the board to the side.
--Nathan, TX. Hire the lazy man. He may not do as much work but that's because he will find a better way.
Those Rockler stands have the roller and a snap on part that has the ball bearings. Very true about skewed rollers ability to push/pull a board rolling over to one side or the other.
My stand has been pushed over many times for various reasons, the first time it happened with the ball bearing attachment, that part exploded and sent bearings everywhere.
Thanks for all the replies guys! In general I was leaning towards the version that has 3 rows on ball bearings, no rollers, for the skewed direction reasons mentioned. As for why that seems advantageous over a single roll of ball bearings, multiple spaced rows seems like it would hold up a board better than just a single row creating a narrow fulcrum.
A part of me had wanted to think “don’t overthink this” another part of me likes perfection and felt a compulsion to apply the same bed accuracy logic to roller stands too. Sounds like I should still do what I can to incorporate precision, but I’m not crazy to think that it’s too far fetched to achieve repeat perfection on that matter, and instead likely makes more sense to just do the best I can and leave it at that.
I think to date, the longest board I’ve needed for a project was maybe 10-12’ long, and that was a project that was more than acceptable to use non-milled lumber for. It’s my hope that the roller stands could afford me a bit more capability to handle longer boards, but also that ideally I never find myself planning a project that makes me think “crud, if only I had a 72” long joiner bed”
i have a couple of these, one big one for the outfeed on my table saw and a smaller one for my big planer. they fold up so dont take a huge amount of space.
working with my hands is a joy,it gives me a sense of fulfillment,somthing so many seek and so few find.-SAM MALOOF.
I have used about every kind of stand used in home, or industrial woodworking shops over the years, and my #1 choice is the Ridgid portable, flip top work support. No matter the machine, or the situation I have never had mine fall over, either under, or because of the load. I have had one of those as pictured above flip, fall on it's side a number of times, and with several situations, and the cheaper classic single roller stands fall more than they stay up. Some kinda smart engineer came up with that swivel top deal, anyhow it's my favorite, for anything moving across it, just standing support, or take off of some pretty heavy items. Just throwing it out there. Looks like some places either can't get one, or they are selling out so fast inventory on hand may be an issue though.
The irony is that when planing longer boards, you usually have time to walk around to the outfeed side to support it by hand or at least guide it onto a stand.
--Nathan, TX. Hire the lazy man. He may not do as much work but that's because he will find a better way.
As stated above, for the planer, not a big deal. The rollers will do the work of keeping the board flat. As Nathan said though, the exception is when only one roller is engaged. I have the outfeed tables of my planer sit slightly higher than the bed to provide a little upwards pressure to minimize snipe. I'd do the same on the infeed of your planer but if you have one on the outfeed, it depends on whether you plan to be over there to guide the board onto it or not. If not, sit it a little lower than the planer bed so the board doesn't knock it over.
The jointer is a bit of a different animal. My advice is try to set it as near dead even as possible and see what happens. The truth is though that your jointer is only going to be good for boards that you can manage on it without outbound supports (just my opinion based on my own experience). The function is that you have a crooked board and two non-planar surfaces you have to navigate so that the cut edge comes off flush to the higher surface and stays flat to it. Anything less than a rigid, permanent support is likely to influence the cut negatively. But AFAIC, there's as much art as science to using a jointer effectively so you'll have to develop your process and if you do so with supports in place, you'll learn to manage them.
I am reading a number of ideas that go toward doing efficient prep work on stock for anything, but I am not seeing the words that talk just about lengths of stock for a final type of prep. My thought is you should cut all stock so it is never more that 4 or 5"longer than final needed part for whatever you're making. In doing this a lot of the many different forces you will see on "longer" stock, just simply go away. If you take a 14' long board and cut it to 37" you will see 2 entirely different results on your stock, and every time doing them at that smaller length will be much more efficient, and getting 4 square will happen a lot faster. Just adding that in, because as much talk and discussion about roller stands needs this added in. IOW prepping really long stock, with thoughts that the long stuff will just need to be cut down to shorter lengths.
Well in theory it sounds like less work. I've found in practice it really is much more work. You can get parts ready close to their needed lengths a lot easier, and faster than trying to dress down stock in a long piece, and then cutting it to needed lengths. This is true because the longer the piece of stock, the more twists, curves, and bows you will have to deal with, so that trying to prep extra long pieces, will actually have you whittling down the stock, more than you want it to be.
Now if you "are" building long boats, and need extra long stock, well then you just have to roll with it, and do the best you can, but seriously, if ALL projects are factored in, then prepping 12' long stock is making more work for yourself.
Good advice George 👍 I'm often at the lower limit for excess material on the stock I choose for parts. Quite often the bow/twist will mean I don't have enough thickness/width to make it work (usually shows up after resawing). Pre-cut parts usually is the key.
The weirdest part is the parts in that twilight zone, are the easiest ones to do. Just almost too short to be able to be fed into either a jointer, or a planer, but about the right length to make boxes, and smalls out of. Sometimes almost push me into using a hand plane. Akkkkk, what am I saying, I so love to burn electrodes. :-)
