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Joe Laviolette
17 posts
and
7 followers
in over 10 years
in over 10 years
For anyone doubting how strong Hot Hide glue is
I am working on a contemporary credenza/console design. I decided to use ash. After milling the rough sawn boards I discovered one was cut pretty close to the crotch. Past experience should have taught me that no matter what I do it won’t stay flat, but I gambled. And lost. 2 weeks after the glue up, the center of the panel was an inch and a quarter off the bench. It developed a massive cup. This is not fixable if I wanted to retain a sufficent thickness. Not a big deal, I need material for a face frame so I can rip some slices.
Normally I’d just cut the cup out on a bandsaw and then rip the pieces to width. Since I was so frustrated with this piece, I wanted the satisfaction of taking a 4lb sledge hammer to it to break it at the glue line.
What happened next surprised me. This was laminated with 192 grain hhg, a sprung joint, a single bar clamp, and some cauls.
As you can see in the pics, it failed in a spectacular manner, However the glue joint is still 100% intact! With PVA there is some separation or separation closer to the glue line. In this case 7/8" of ash gave out before the glue let go.
I can’t say i’m surprised, but I know a lot of people call into question the strength of HHG.
18 Replies
No surprise here. I would have bet on it.
The only reason PVA is the go-to glue these days is better marketing.
The early bird gets the worm but its the second mouse that gets the cheese.
Yeah, well that….and the fact I don’t need specialist equipment and careful storage. I just need a plastic bottle on the corner of my bench. Don’t get me wrong, I’ve never used HHG but I have been reading a lot here and elsewhere about it and I may make a try with it, it appeals to me somehow. The marketing is really not the issue, it’s the convenience.
-- Alec (Friends call me Wolf, no idea why)
I’m not surprised either after using HHG lately. It’s actually quite convenient to use too since you you can do rub joints on smaller work and drop the clamps. It can seem inconvenient, but it’s just a pot in some warm water to keep it in a liquid state.
Mike, an American living in Norway
I used to think of it as inconvenient once. Now I think of worrying about glue residue ruining my finish, the need for extra clamping, the inability to hammer veneer and slower cure times as inconvenient. It’s all a matter of perspective.
The early bird gets the worm but its the second mouse that gets the cheese.
Amen.
Mike, an American living in Norway
Like Paul said, HHG is only a pain when you are done for the day. And all you need to do is pop it in the fridge.
PVA is pain all the time. This was a 40" long panel. I would have had to use a dozen clamps instead of a single one. Also you can see the squeeze out in the pic. It’s not a concern like PVA is. When the piece got the final scraping it pops right off and I don’t need to wipe it down with mineral spirits to show me all the spots I need to sand more to get the PVA out of.
You guys put out a good arguement. I have no rebuttal. I’ll have to give it a go, I guess… :)
-- Alec (Friends call me Wolf, no idea why)
Now who has the excellent marketing? LOL
Losing fingers since 1969
I’m sure I have a sign on my forehead that says, “I saw you coming”. so….how do you keep it hot?
-- Alec (Friends call me Wolf, no idea why)
I haven’t invested in a glue pot yet. I use a Rival Hot Pot Express. It’s about $12 at your favorite housewares retailer. I put my glue in a mason jar and use it as a double boiler. The major inconvenience with this set up is you have to add water to the pot occasionally as it evaporates. This hasn’t been inconvenient enough as to where I wanted to spend $100 or a glue pot though.
Plus a small mason jar is pretty easy to hide in the fridge if your significant other may be opposed to having a copper kettle of gelled dead animals next to the cold cuts.
Please remember that it’s no different than the jelly under that half eaten chicken carcass. I’m sure she wouldn’t mind having Knox gelatin in the fridge
……. same stuff. In fact Knox gelatin is a high strength protien glue in its own right. It has a gram strength of 350! General purpose wood glue (HHG) is 192 gram.
The early bird gets the worm but its the second mouse that gets the cheese.
Just a matter of setting up for it and getting into the routine of working with it which will take a bit.
Here is a little info I found after Paul mentioned Knox gelatin .
http://www.williamsonwarne.com/mat_hideglue.htm
Very interesting article Klaus, thanks for posting it.
Mike, an American living in Norway
Pretty interesting. I’d like to branch out into using hide glue; these sort of posts push me closer to picking up the warmer and starting to use it.
Rob, Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario
I ordered 5 pounds of hhg from highland yesterday.
I waiting to see how lunch will turn out :)
Abbas, Castro Valley, CA
I bought a bit, too…you guys are great salesmen. So….from what I’ve read, you just slather the two edges, push them into place quickly and it clamps itself… forever if it doesn’t get hot and steamy…so no sauna builds with this stuff…and it tastes like chicken? BONUS!
-- Alec (Friends call me Wolf, no idea why)
Check out the “rubbed joint” video in this blog.
http://woodworkingweb.com/entries/156-myths-facts-and-videos
The early bird gets the worm but its the second mouse that gets the cheese.
Another advantage of using HHG is that if you get some on your bench or floor, it is washes off with warm water. If you get it on your clothes it gets easily washed out in the wash. The best feature however is that it does leave spots on your work that are only discovered after you apply finish. I hate it when that happens!
Another tip is that a 1 part glue to 7 parts water makes a wonderful sanding sealer. I used it on my chevalier and it worked perfect. A lot cheaper than shellac, but I don’t know how it works with water based stains and finishes, so I suggest testing first to make sure it will work with your project.
Mike, an American living in Norway
